SwampSnyper

I've been reading reviews and gathering as much info as I can on these heads. I really like the concept of them, otherwise I wouldn't have waste my time researching them. I have a short DL so anything I can do to aid in penetration has my attention. I like the idea of the wire flexing around bone to keep the momentum moving forward.

They got some bad reviews on bass pro shop. I take reviews with a grain of salt because most of the time the shooter doesn't really know what happened and is upset he lost his animal and blames the head.

One of the concerns I have is, how quiet is it in flight?
Another is, if you don't get a pass thru, will the atom back out easy? I like to have my entrance open to bleed out more freely. Seems like the wire would snap off and act like a barb hanging up in the entrance wound. I could be wrong, but have heard reports that the head shouldn't be shot into a target because it is difficult to be pulled back out. That just got me thinking.

Seems like if the end of the wire had a tee shaped end and would slide under a groove on the rear of the ferrule it would allow the wire to flex but not lift out of the groove when rearward force is applied to the arrow. Just me thinking out loud.

Like I said, If I wasn't really impressed with the concept of this head I wouldn't have even researched it and asked questions. Thanks for thinking outside the box.

Arrowds

Hello SwampSnyper and thanks for the questions....

How Quiet in flight is our Atom? We also did a very extensive study after asking the larger and more important question. What is the difference in the outcome of a bowhunt between a supposed "Quiet" broadhead vs a supposed "Noisy" broadhead.

Basics of test methodology...We utilized microphones to capture peak noise, measured in dB, of arrow/broadhead projectile in flight. This provides a reference to actually defining which are noisy, which are less noisy...you'd think we would simply be done there...nope...as this has zero bearing in actually defining the true dynamic meaning of what these numbers represent.
Just as your initial gut concern is defined being the reason you asked the question in the first place...you extrapolated that a noisy head will be a negative influence to your success/failure in the woods. I don't do assumptions as many may have begun to notice in some of my responses/comments made on this or any other forum.

Here is what I did. Here in Texas....we can bait deer/hogs. I used deer as the test subject as they are more immediately sensitive and reactive to noise than hogs and are the number one most hunted animal in North America.
First...we control the shot distance, the animals physical position in relation to the bowhunter, the same arrow, the same bow. Once we cycled thru and captured on video each shot sequence and the animals reactions which encompassed all make/model broadheads both supposedly noisy, medium noisey and quiet...we took one more additional and vitally important test.
It's called a "control" projectile. We simply called it "The Rattlesnake" arrow as it produced noise in orders of magnitude larger than even the noisest of broadheads. How then would this influence the outcome of the hunt?
Here is what occured. Not in one single instance did any make/model broadhead despite measured differences..although in totality, a very small measured difference...none created a difference in the outcome of the hunt nor any change in the animals response to such noise.
What was documented was the very simple fact...noise does travel much faster than an arrow...as a result..the one and only thing any deer responded to was the sound of the bow releasing its energy to the arrow when the string was dropped. At no time between the distance from bow to animal that arrow traveled did the animal respond/react and change it's initial escape efforts. How about with the "Rattlesnake" arrow? Same response...the deer ONLY responded to that sound of the bow releasing its arrow..and even we figured that rattlesnake arrow would skew the results....we were wrong when review of the facts as captured on video.
We then took it a bit farther to determine...should the distance of the shot on an animal be sufficiently far enough away such that the bow noise was muted or simply not of sufficient amplitude the deer didn't feel threatened by it...we now can isolate any reaction to that noise made by the arrow/broadhead themselves. With any broadhead, including the Atom...we noticed zero reaction at all from the animal until the actual braodhead struck the body of the animal.
In reflective study of the facts we garnered from this testing...I hypothesized that unnaturally loud noise close...animals respond instinctively to evade/escape...any additional noise they may hear beyond this unnaturally loud and close noise...they do not retain the ability to "Reason" or think about synthesizing and then responding differently to that additional information thier ears may or may not discover....
However, once you remove that high dB level of noise spike the bow makes from the dynamics..and this distance varies based upon altitude/wind/temperature/geographical climate/location/ambient background noise...the projectile...whatever noise it may make is simply lost or is camoflauged within the background ambient noise nature itself makes. Consider that deer are used to birds flitting about, grasshoppers jumping up and flying off, rabbits sprinting off, leaves blowing in the wind/grasses in the wind,etc...they simply look, but don't respond and in many observations may only twitch an ear to that direction and remain feeding not even bothering to pick their heads up for a closer look.
To this point..video evidence of such a response is captured quit well in our point of sale video on a mule deer doe I shot at 61 yards...Yes....I took the shot knowing I could make it and that the animal simply would not move from where it was when the arrow was released. (I practice to 80 yards routinely)Please have a look at this link and make specific notice of a few things...once....the doe I am focused on shooting is feeding, quartering away...the doe to it's left turns to have it's ears and eyes turned in my direction but is unsure of what I am. The amplitude of noise created by the approximately 25 mph cross wind creates the ambient background noise I new the deer I was to shoot simply would not hear my bow go off. yet I also new most likely those ears on the other deer turned in my direction would capture that noise....and respond accordingly.
Long story short...The Atom tipped arrow, although to some may sound noisy as seen in a true field use....will have ZERO negative influence to any hunt on any animal in the world. And as you can see...the Atom put that big muley doe on the ground in less than ten yards.
The use of "mine is quieter than theirs" is merely a marketing trick similar in scope to "Mine is sharper than thiers"... I'm simply not a fan of marketing hype, while I do remain a big fan of engineering/test methodology to prove/disprove and synthesize the facts in such interactive and influential dynamics associated with the little micro machine we call a broadhead.
Please look specifically at minute 3:35 thru 3:56 on the link below....you will see exactly what I mean with respect to the one deer on the left with it's ears pointing at me...and the one I shoot feeding with ears pointing away. Please note the flight of the arrow in slow motion and exactly when that doe reacts to the arrow/Atom...yep..when it poked thru it's side...then and only then.

YouTube - Atom Broadhead

We'll get to the remainder of your questions shortly....for now...I've got to get back to work.

SwampSnyper

Wow! Great info. Thanks for sharing. Looking forward to hearing what else you have to say. Great job!

Arrowds

Okay...next response to your multiple questions.

"If you don't get a pass thru, will the arrow back out easy"? Guess you'll have to just look at footage aired on television, on DVD's and such...how often do you see an arrow actually "Back Out" on it's own accord as the animal is running off? Rare to say the least. I would state that an Atom tipped arrow has the same statistical probability of "Backing Out" any other broadhead has. However, we've clearly demonstrated there is a much higher likely hood in view of the razor wires compressibility of its cutting width that we do achieve a complete pass thru more often than any fixed bladed or mech which opens and now becomes a fixed bladed design.

"Seems like the wire would snap off and act as a barb"...again...I spent a huge amount of time engineering for exactly the opposite should a catastrophic failure occur of a wire. Should a wire happen to break...it simply fall away with no deflection/impedence to straight line penetration and it still carries three wires to perform the lethal task its supposed to.
Even if a wire does not break and the ends of one or both wires come out of thier "Slots"...they simply allow the wire to rotate and flip over, thus allowing even easier removal of an Atom tipped arrow than the majority of any other fixed head. Similar to a mech when thier blades close back up when pulled backwards.

"You've heard reports of wires breaking in targets"...yep....happens. Foam is not an animal. The wires do not break going into foam...but when someone yanks it backwards and only one end of a wire pops out but the other remains trapped in the slot, thus torquing it over in a manner it wasn't designed to withstand and thus it either pulls out or breaks. Yet in even just this morning...this same wire put a cape buffalo down with one shot in thirty three yards. You can see the entrance hole in the photo...didn't get if it was a pass thru or not so no exit wound picture or mention of it...



It's about killing animals and not extrapolating assumptions of performance being shot into any other medium. Does that make sense?
On the same subject...the need to shoot into foam in the first place....I'm the only broadhead manufacturer in the world to put on each and every package of Atom's an accuracy guarantee with NO limitations. Which means other than one or two shots to set your mind right we actually deliver such accuracy...from then on..simply practice with field points and quit tearing up your targets, wasting/dulling blades typical of other heads which then need resharpening or replacing right?....It's simple...practice with field points...hunt with Atom's. No limitations to the accuracy means any safe spine shaft, any make/model type size fletching mounted helical, offset or straight, crooked insert, crooked nock, cams out of time, bow out of tune or all that bad Juju together...at fourty yards measured to the thousands of an inch shot to 1000 feet per second...yep...no adjustment to the bow...we go in the exact same hole measured to the thousandths of an inch! Just no need to pound foam with our Atom in the first place...it's actually that accurate.

With respect to your suggestions on improving...yep...we're constantly working to improve and such efforts/variations are being tested all the time as well. While I cannot reveal exactly what it is I'm working upon...lets just say in review of the designs we've released and the success we're having with them...you can assume that whatever we debut...it'll clearly not be like anyone elses fixed or mech heads...and it'll just be better than that which we debuted before!

I thank you for being open minded enought to do such research and then follow up with specific questions...education of the bowhunting public is the hardest part of this industry in view of how ingrained the teaching of myths purported to be fact are repeated generation to generation. I'm just trying to break the cycle a bit with the facts....your questions help add clarity to the next person whom didn't ask a question but wanted to.

Attached Images

Cape Buffalo Copy.jpg (55.6 KB, 26 views)

cartman308

I told you guys the man knows his products and does a VERY good job explaiing them

well done!

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SwampSnyper

Thanks for the input arrowds. I appreciate your time. I'm still not confident in the arrow backing out on a non pass thru shot. Thats the main reason I stay away from many fixed blades and some mechanicals such as the rage. My thinking is they would anchor in the wound channel for a longer period of time than a folding back blade mechanical. I shoot spitfires currently and have seen on occasion, non pass thru's work their way out and fall to the ground with in the 1st few bounds of the deer. The blades would be in the closed position on the ground, indicating they folded close and the arrow slid out. I had good blood and the recovery was around 100 yards are less on all occasions. Examination of the carcasses showed blades were open as they entered, passed thru the 1st shoulder and into the ribs on the opposite side of the rib cage. I am color blind, so the more blood on the ground the better for me and I believe an open entry wound will allow more blood to exit.
I do believe the atom's design will allow higher percentages of pass thru's. Continue thinking outside of the box. I am looking forward to seeing your new products in the future. Thanks again.

Arrowds

swampsnyper...thanks for the questions and in your closing comment you really nailed the conundrum for the majority of broadhead inventors. No matter what make/model hits the shelves or facts hit the table...at the customer level...it still always comes down to "Cause it makes me feel better" to use this or that. And why I continue to push the envelope of innovative effort to solve all problems and make a better broadhead which not only encompasses the facts...but hits a home run on the "Wow....I feel THAT one IS a better option than what I've been using". Maybe you'll have a different "feeling" upon the results in use of our new Radian which we debuted this year at the ATA show? All the benefits of the Atom, only sports two scalpel sharp razor blades held in place with a leaf spring suspension spanning a 1.5 inch cutting width...Compressible cutting width technology applied to scalpel sharp razor blades....what do you think of pushing that envelope to new heights?
Look forward to yours and all others comments.

cartman308

The Radian is definiay on the to try list!! I was one of the people that just couldn't get over the hump on the Atoms. Had a pack on the desk, jus couldn't get that last bit of confidence.

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SwampSnyper

The radian is very innovated. Looking forward to learning more about it.
Cartman, I like the gradual hump on the atom. I like a blade that has a good angle on the blades allowing more slicing than chopping.

Dr.FrankB-Mimic

Matt,
this kinds of replies are exactly the ones I love.
Leaving the subject to tech. aspects, and replying with test results in your hands, is definitely the right and serious way.
I am only a bit upset that, here in Europe, nobody knows about this products and looks to be a pity.
I am trying to find out a pic or something about the new head you are talking about, this Radian.
Might You help ?
Dr.FrankB-Mimic

NICK_BOWHUNTER

i now feel smarter after reading this lol! Any testing on how they hold up in the armor plate of a hog? granted i know your not supposed to shoot there but what if? considdering the atom for a hog head this year!

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turkeykillingfo

I have used open on impact heads for years now but have had a bad experience the last couple of years with them so i thought of going back to fixed blade heads but i am afraid they will not fly well for me.I seen your head and i am thinking they may be a good compromise meaning they will cut like a fixed blade but fly like a open on inpact head.What can i expect out of them?

Fabbri

Dr Frank, u know about the forum we both are in Italy.
they are so hostile with innovations.

I bought 3 atom broadheads, after your suggestions (not the ones in titanium, I am sorry!!!) and I wanna test it

for sure I will take titanium ones and also the new radian

Arrowds

YouTube - 360 lb Boar meets Atom

The link above is in response to the question of how the Atom will hold up on hogs...big boar hogs shot thru the thick shoulder plates, broadside....on purpose. While in most instances...as you can see...even after going thru those thick shoulder plates...you can typically clean the Atom off, maybe pop the ends of the wires back into their slots...keep shooting. Maybe replace just one wire occasionally...who knows....stuff happens. And as Dr Frank experienced...once in rare while...a wire may break inside an animal...but also as he experienced...the animal dies quick and ethical regardless.

richa3md

Man that big boar died quick! My kind of tracking job.