More Questions -

Red Feather Archery · 02-12-2010, 04:46 PM

Hey Matt,

Thought that I'd come to your forum to ask a question instead of hijacking the To Sharp thread.

Love the innovation of the Atom broadhead. As far as I can tell it isn't legal in Oregon as we are a "fixed blade" state. How do we Oregonians get that to change? I'm thinking of contacting Fish and Game, but do you think it would be more effective to get pro shops on board by asking for them? I don't know if broadhead manufacturers who make mechanicals are working with state legislations or not, but it would be great if Oregon would do what the three states you mentioned on your website would do and simply test the effectiveness of the broadhead. Seems so simple, test it. If it's effective, allow it

One other question I have for you is regarding the size of the entry and exit wounds. Because the blade is flexible it would appear to me that the size of the entry and exit wound could vary depending on the location and bone structures hit. But, that's just my intuitive thought. What are your actual experiences?

Thanks,

Stan

BuckFeverLodge · 02-12-2010, 07:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red Feather Archery

One other question I have for you is regarding the size of the entry and exit wounds. Because the blade is flexible it would appear to me that the size of the entry and exit wound could vary depending on the location and bone structures hit. But, that's just my intuitive thought. What are your actual experiences?

Thanks,

Stan

That is a very good question Stan. I have more interest than ever in the Atom and now the Radian, and have been wondering the same. I am sure Matt will have plenty to share with us on your question. I know hundreds of shots have been put on animals, maybe thousands with the Atom. I am eager to hear the feedback on this question.

WABOWMAN · 02-13-2010, 05:28 AM

Stan i know that here in WA that the Washington state archery assosiation and the washington state bowhunters work with the WDFW all the time to get changes in the laws.I dont know for sure what they have done to try and change the laws on mech. blade broadheads.I am interested in this subject as well.Great question!

Arrowds · 02-13-2010, 10:34 AM

Hey ya'll...thanks for the real good questions.

Game Laws specific to Oregon and Washington...politics. Simple as that. They inhibit thru the political process any review of legality of a broadhead for consideration of change/addition to thier game laws at this time and have resisted such review for minimum the last three years. I have made myself available to both Fish and Game organizations/regional bowhunter clubs/experts, etc for travel to each state, testify under oath and provide facts where they can make an informed decision. Neither of those two states have taken me up on my offer. Thru simple word of mouth...we are sold globally and growing that sales volume due to the lethality of the design. I'm sure it's just a matter of time before those two states wake up and smell the coffee. Just remember in your efforts for those that live there...You need my assistance to support educating the folks...let me know when/where and I"ll be there to have a nice chat on broadheads and such. We also have what's called "Legal Precedence" in that five other states already did thier reviews in house and in the field...unanimously passed and made legal in every state whom did thier due diligence. Only manner they can deny legality? Simply not do thier jobs and do such review.

Here in lies the fundamental problem which is purely human nature and I understand it...but it's an inhibitor any new technology experiences....assumption of results without having personally tried the product. As seen in the below video....seeing is believing.

YouTube - Atom Broadhead test Giraffe

Watch this footage of our razor wire being tested on this recently dead giraffe whose skin alone is greater than one inch thick. Watch it to the end where they do the butchering and they show how thick the skin is...cuts full width...and these were the original wires...not the improved ones. The Atom defies the mandates of folks whom call themselves "Professional Bowhunters"...this is not a knock on them...but it merely points out the simple fact...there is a huge difference in being an experienced bowhunter...and a broadhead scientist...
"Assume"?....just don't do it.

Thanks for asking as ya'll are some whom are pursuing the facts....and that is definitely a good thing!

Arrowds · 02-13-2010, 10:37 AM

Oh yea....and with respect to The Radian....such assumptions are why I engineered it's cutting width to NOT compress less than 1 full inch...which is 1/8 inch wider than any legal minimum. You see...I learn too to modify my engineering to address the human variable of assumption/gut check feeling and customer preferences....despite knowing further compression greatly enhances penetration and larger efficiency in use of all forward momentum...
Good hunting!

BuckFeverLodge · 02-13-2010, 10:56 AM

Now I can ease through my day. Thank you Matt for the explanation, I was waiting. I take pleasure in reading your responses, I just wish I could come up with more questions to ask. Unfortunately, when you answer a particular question, you typically clear up any others which I had lingering in the back of my mind.

Great job, keep up the good work. Looking forward to shooting your products.

Arrowds · 02-13-2010, 03:44 PM

Yea...I know, I know...just like my wife says...only she's not so tactful as ya'll are! Thanks for the polite manner of sayin I'm too long winded!

BuckFeverLodge · 02-13-2010, 04:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arrowds

Yea...I know, I know...just like my wife says...only she's not so tactful as ya'll are! Thanks for the polite manner of sayin I'm too long winded!

Absolutely not. Sure some of your posts are lengthy, but hey, it's difficult to sum up all that technical knowledge in a few short sentences. I truely meant what I said, I will read your posts and get answers to questions I didn't even know I had. Your posts make me think differently, it opens my mind, gets me a little outside my tiny little box.

Keep crankin' out those posts, I'll keep reading.

Red Feather Archery · 02-13-2010, 06:10 PM

Matt, thanks for the answers! Thorough, is the way I'd define 'em, not long-winded. Great information on a truly innovative product. I guess until Oregon gets caught up, I may have to run down to Texas and try these things out.

Booner · 02-14-2010, 10:07 PM

Long winded Texan.........sheesh...hahahahahahahaha. Kidding Matt. I love your posts also. I have learned a ton from your posts!!! No joke a TON! Thanks for the time you take to explain.

WABOWMAN · 02-15-2010, 07:48 AM

Thank you Matt!

Arrowds · 02-16-2010, 08:07 PM

Hey ya'll...thanks for the kind words...and ya'll are exactly right on the takes time to "splain" it part. Kind of like what you touched upon BuckFeverLodge...while the vast majority of other companies WANT you to remain within the mental confines of a box, even when they are percieved as teaching you something...there remains a confinement to specifics that condition the mind to not stray outside the lines they want you to remain playing within. Why would this be and why did I notice it? I believe it merely amplifies thier ability to sell to yet another generation of not so well informed but well intentioned bowhunters....Think about that a bit... Yea...I study more than just forensics and physics...a bit of psychology coupled with historical precedence is hugely important....you must ask why people have done what they did and why are they doing things that they are doing now in the making/selling broadheads. For some companies...profits are the only motivation and based upon that focus...are hugely successful. While I enjoy profits...My focus was on attempting to engineer the perfect broadhead regardless of cost.
Yea...I know....your heads fixin to explode!

So just grab a cold beer and get back to the basics and away from the deep thinking stuff for a minute....

How about startin with asking such simple questions as why do they claim things such as?
Gotta be scalpel sharp or your not ethical....Really? Then "Splain" how fishing line cuts to the bone or a piece of paper does the same thing? Or the polar opposite being why a field point can kill a deer? See what I mean?
We're field point accurate! Really? Why do we have to "Fine Tune" our bow to shoot a "Grouping" of broadhead tipped arrows when our field points were banging nocks at fifty yards consistently? And why is it infinitely touchier and harder now when my bow shoots 350 fps vs five years ago shooting 250 fps? See what I mean? Splain that too please!
And yep...a host of other "Splain" it scenarios....
So ask any questions you can think of...if I don't have a simple answer....It'll be even more long winded than this!

Later ya'll!

sikahunter · 02-17-2010, 04:41 AM

man you gotta love arrowds replys. always on the money

SwampSnyper · 02-17-2010, 10:17 AM

I love reading him "splain" something.

Arrowds · 02-20-2010, 09:18 AM

Safari en áfrica - cazando en sudáfrica por 'African Hunting Adventures'

Just got a customer whom tried our Atom in Spain of the course of this past year with great success...and so he brought them to use on his South African hunt....here is a video he put together showing some of the fun he had with his Athens bow and our Atom broadhead. Man do I ever need to carve out some time and book a hunt to THAT place! That looks like too much danged fun!

02-12-2010, 04:46 PM	#1 (permalink)
Red Feather Archery Broadhead Maker Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 730	More Questions Hey Matt, Thought that I'd come to your forum to ask a question instead of hijacking the To Sharp thread. Love the innovation of the Atom broadhead. As far as I can tell it isn't legal in Oregon as we are a "fixed blade" state. How do we Oregonians get that to change? I'm thinking of contacting Fish and Game, but do you think it would be more effective to get pro shops on board by asking for them? I don't know if broadhead manufacturers who make mechanicals are working with state legislations or not, but it would be great if Oregon would do what the three states you mentioned on your website would do and simply test the effectiveness of the broadhead. Seems so simple, test it. If it's effective, allow it One other question I have for you is regarding the size of the entry and exit wounds. Because the blade is flexible it would appear to me that the size of the entry and exit wound could vary depending on the location and bone structures hit. But, that's just my intuitive thought. What are your actual experiences? Thanks, Stan

02-13-2010, 05:28 AM	#3 (permalink)
WABOWMAN 130gr Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: port townsend,WA Posts: 504	Stan i know that here in WA that the Washington state archery assosiation and the washington state bowhunters work with the WDFW all the time to get changes in the laws.I dont know for sure what they have done to try and change the laws on mech. blade broadheads.I am interested in this subject as well.Great question! __________________ Athens Field staff TRU-ball staff Vapor trail pro staff Broadheadshed staff Owner MAY'S CUSTOM ARCHERY ATHENS APROVED DEALER

02-13-2010, 10:56 AM	#6 (permalink)
BuckFeverLodge Broadhead Admin Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: SW Michigan Posts: 1,398	Now I can ease through my day. Thank you Matt for the explanation, I was waiting. I take pleasure in reading your responses, I just wish I could come up with more questions to ask. Unfortunately, when you answer a particular question, you typically clear up any others which I had lingering in the back of my mind. Great job, keep up the good work. Looking forward to shooting your products. __________________ ATHENS FACTORY STAFF SHOOTER, Red Feather Archery Field Staff, Eco3 Outdoors Pro Staff, U-slide Bow Holder Pro Staff, LTL Acorn Outdoors Pro Staff "Anybody can kill one with a gun" Steve Casselman "It's going to be a very bad year for a lot of unsuspecting critters!" Matt Futtere - Arrowdynamic Solutions

02-15-2010, 07:48 AM	#11 (permalink)
WABOWMAN 130gr Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: port townsend,WA Posts: 504	Thank you Matt! __________________ Athens Field staff TRU-ball staff Vapor trail pro staff Broadheadshed staff Owner MAY'S CUSTOM ARCHERY ATHENS APROVED DEALER

02-17-2010, 04:41 AM	#13 (permalink)
sikahunter 100gr Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: marylands eastern shore Posts: 175	man you gotta love arrowds replys. always on the money __________________ diamond iceman,limbsavers,qad rest, axis st 378gr.,100gr. grimreaper,fuse stab. and quiver,fusion vanes

02-13-2010, 10:34 AM	#4 (permalink)
Arrowds Broadhead Maker Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 173	Hey ya'll...thanks for the real good questions. Game Laws specific to Oregon and Washington...politics. Simple as that. They inhibit thru the political process any review of legality of a broadhead for consideration of change/addition to thier game laws at this time and have resisted such review for minimum the last three years. I have made myself available to both Fish and Game organizations/regional bowhunter clubs/experts, etc for travel to each state, testify under oath and provide facts where they can make an informed decision. Neither of those two states have taken me up on my offer. Thru simple word of mouth...we are sold globally and growing that sales volume due to the lethality of the design. I'm sure it's just a matter of time before those two states wake up and smell the coffee. Just remember in your efforts for those that live there...You need my assistance to support educating the folks...let me know when/where and I"ll be there to have a nice chat on broadheads and such. We also have what's called "Legal Precedence" in that five other states already did thier reviews in house and in the field...unanimously passed and made legal in every state whom did thier due diligence. Only manner they can deny legality? Simply not do thier jobs and do such review. Here in lies the fundamental problem which is purely human nature and I understand it...but it's an inhibitor any new technology experiences....assumption of results without having personally tried the product. As seen in the below video....seeing is believing. YouTube - Atom Broadhead test Giraffe Watch this footage of our razor wire being tested on this recently dead giraffe whose skin alone is greater than one inch thick. Watch it to the end where they do the butchering and they show how thick the skin is...cuts full width...and these were the original wires...not the improved ones. The Atom defies the mandates of folks whom call themselves "Professional Bowhunters"...this is not a knock on them...but it merely points out the simple fact...there is a huge difference in being an experienced bowhunter...and a broadhead scientist... "Assume"?....just don't do it. Thanks for asking as ya'll are some whom are pursuing the facts....and that is definitely a good thing!

02-13-2010, 10:37 AM	#5 (permalink)
Arrowds Broadhead Maker Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 173	Oh yea....and with respect to The Radian....such assumptions are why I engineered it's cutting width to NOT compress less than 1 full inch...which is 1/8 inch wider than any legal minimum. You see...I learn too to modify my engineering to address the human variable of assumption/gut check feeling and customer preferences....despite knowing further compression greatly enhances penetration and larger efficiency in use of all forward momentum... Good hunting!

02-13-2010, 03:44 PM	#7 (permalink)
Arrowds Broadhead Maker Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 173	Yea...I know, I know...just like my wife says...only she's not so tactful as ya'll are! Thanks for the polite manner of sayin I'm too long winded!

02-13-2010, 06:10 PM	#9 (permalink)
Red Feather Archery Broadhead Maker Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 730	Matt, thanks for the answers! Thorough, is the way I'd define 'em, not long-winded. Great information on a truly innovative product. I guess until Oregon gets caught up, I may have to run down to Texas and try these things out.

02-14-2010, 10:07 PM	#10 (permalink)
Booner Administrator Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Arkansas USA Posts: 952	Long winded Texan.........sheesh...hahahahahahahaha. Kidding Matt. I love your posts also. I have learned a ton from your posts!!! No joke a TON! Thanks for the time you take to explain.

02-16-2010, 08:07 PM	#12 (permalink)
Arrowds Broadhead Maker Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 173	Hey ya'll...thanks for the kind words...and ya'll are exactly right on the takes time to "splain" it part. Kind of like what you touched upon BuckFeverLodge...while the vast majority of other companies WANT you to remain within the mental confines of a box, even when they are percieved as teaching you something...there remains a confinement to specifics that condition the mind to not stray outside the lines they want you to remain playing within. Why would this be and why did I notice it? I believe it merely amplifies thier ability to sell to yet another generation of not so well informed but well intentioned bowhunters....Think about that a bit... Yea...I study more than just forensics and physics...a bit of psychology coupled with historical precedence is hugely important....you must ask why people have done what they did and why are they doing things that they are doing now in the making/selling broadheads. For some companies...profits are the only motivation and based upon that focus...are hugely successful. While I enjoy profits...My focus was on attempting to engineer the perfect broadhead regardless of cost. Yea...I know....your heads fixin to explode! So just grab a cold beer and get back to the basics and away from the deep thinking stuff for a minute.... How about startin with asking such simple questions as why do they claim things such as? Gotta be scalpel sharp or your not ethical....Really? Then "Splain" how fishing line cuts to the bone or a piece of paper does the same thing? Or the polar opposite being why a field point can kill a deer? See what I mean? We're field point accurate! Really? Why do we have to "Fine Tune" our bow to shoot a "Grouping" of broadhead tipped arrows when our field points were banging nocks at fifty yards consistently? And why is it infinitely touchier and harder now when my bow shoots 350 fps vs five years ago shooting 250 fps? See what I mean? Splain that too please! And yep...a host of other "Splain" it scenarios.... So ask any questions you can think of...if I don't have a simple answer....It'll be even more long winded than this! Later ya'll!

02-17-2010, 10:17 AM	#14 (permalink)
SwampSnyper Broadhead Tester Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Louisiana Posts: 563	I love reading him "splain" something.

02-20-2010, 09:18 AM	#15 (permalink)
Arrowds Broadhead Maker Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 173	Safari en áfrica - cazando en sudáfrica por 'African Hunting Adventures' Just got a customer whom tried our Atom in Spain of the course of this past year with great success...and so he brought them to use on his South African hunt....here is a video he put together showing some of the fun he had with his Athens bow and our Atom broadhead. Man do I ever need to carve out some time and book a hunt to THAT place! That looks like too much danged fun!

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