jeff

i agree that the tip design/geometry may be much more important also.

i'm looking forward to seeing everything when it's up on your website.

jeff

i'm with you 100% there

Arrowds

Woody...good stuff, well spoken...elasticity of critters from hide to bones is huge and chaotic shot to shot/animal to animal...we see it every single shot regardless of attempts to "Copy Exact" the shot scenario to gain uniformity to test methodology when variations to head design are being compared.

My "Assumption" at impact with the two styles noted during my own testing with respect to change of direction you mention. (Same length to width ratio's, same velocity, same mass...just differing bevels) At impact...there is a "resistance" spike of energy during the beginning phase of work to penetrate an animal...I attributed this again...to laws of physics simply doing what it likes to do....for every action..there is an equal and opposite reaction.

The broadhead, at impact hits resistance to forward motion...in view of the tip of the broadhead now decelerating at an exponentially faster rate than the nock and going slower than the nock end of the arrow...the resistance or difference in velocity translates to a reflected energy wave as the arrow shaft absorbs this resistance to slow the entire projectile down to a uniform velocity. And depending upon the uniformity of the spine of the shaft...it can re-direct within a 360' radius or direction of the broadhead in relation to its initial straight line intended flight. Couple this with the mechanical dimensions of the broadhead in relation to elastic type hide/muscle tisssue...or compressing into bone/glancing off bone (higher specific density)..you amplify the loss of forward momentum as the arrow is re-directed to a differeing direction. Similar to how an Olympic platform diver can simply change his body angle as he enters the water to dissapate energy and minimize his depth of penetration within the water despite huge momentum/velocity. You can see this in the video Woody posted of the deer shot broadside. Pay attention to the arrow shaft as the broadhead penetrates, glances off the front edge of a rib to continue penetrating. With nock traveling faster than the broadhead at moment of impact...you'll see the reflected energy load up the arrow shaft and cause it to begin oscillating the entire time until the nock disappears into the animal.
Simple terms..it's a huge energy dump which is taken directly from the total energy volume...Just bear in mind always that deceleration occurs at an exponential rate. Tip design, length to width ratio's, spine of arrow shaft...all play in concert together in attempt to deliver the death goodies....should a major bone have been struck...the design of the broadhead can make/break the outcome for sure regardless of at what point in micro second time frames the bone shattered.
Clearly though in this instance...a major bone was not struck...just glanced off the front of that rib and enough energy remained within the closed, finite energy system to obtain a complete pass thru! Job well done and a dead critter as intended...good video...thanks for posting it Woody. Words never do such conversations justice...video/photo's...perfect.

WoodySanford

I'm going to translate this for Okie101...Larger tips focus energy on bone rather than penetrate it which causes fracturing. They also focus energy on softer more elastic tissue rather than penetrate it extending it beyond its limits till it ruptures, its the nature of how larger, blunter tips function and is similar to a belly flop.

From what I see, using such tips for fracturing bone is counter productive. Its a huge interuption of penetration with a great deal of direction to complicate penetration. I recommend avoiding heavy bone impacts and I have found that pretty easy to do myself.

On COC tips a little increase in size can and will prevent tip rolling by increasing volume at the tip but it is easy to go to far and cut off your nose despite your face, so to speak and create completely different dynamics outside of what COC tips do.

The single bevel to me is an increase in drag and a significant tourque on large animal ribs, which again is something I'm trying to avoid just like the level of direction on impact. I look to minimize any resistance I can in regards to conservation of energy.

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Best broadhead is a catagory not a single design!

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Okie101

Thanks Woody.....much better...

special

Ive just done peno tests using several styles of 2 bladers..these are my findings..

The single bevel 2 bladers get much more peno that double bevels..esp the headfs with the more slender taper.
I even single beveled what is normaly a double bevel design,and despite loosing a little weight,it still out performed its double bevel twin.

The single bevels hold their edge far better and last much longer..But ive known that for years from experience using both.

So I know what ill be using this year..and thats all that matters..lol

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richa3md

Opinions on a single bevel mechanical..and how many do exist, I know swhacker is.

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09' PSE Super Short 29 in and 72.5# and 125 gr G5 Striker Magnum!!!

jeff

from the single-bevel standpoint i like it.

i've never used nor even handled a mechanical broadhead, but every time i see them handled on videos i just don't like them. the moveable parts strike me as flimsy. just a purely subjective opinion there. i would go with a fixed single bevel

WoodySanford

I tried that experiment and it didn't pan out for me, found the edge to suffer deformation/abrasion easier and no increase in penetration. Actually a decrease.

__________________
Best broadhead is a catagory not a single design!

I am "Ferral" and I dig it baby!

headhunter75422

Lots of very good information here. Thanks for all of it.

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RED FEATHER ARCHERY

Standing Bear

I want to take the time to thank the interveners on this tread for using their well earned knowledge based information and allowing everyone to benefit from that. You guys got Class !!!!!!!

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darton2

This is great stuff.

My randomn thoughts on the subject.... First, blade sharpeness for me is a top priority. Several years back(young and dumb) I shot 12 whitetail does with just a few broadheads. Several where shot with the same broadhead and one (by mistake) was shot with a muzzy practice blade broadhead. Some I sharpened, some seemed at the time sharp enough and a couple I replaced the blades. The one thing that I noticed that season is entrance hole size with the exact same broadhead would vary allot by strictly the sharpness. The practice broadhead actually penetrated completely through but looked like you shoved a pencil through the deer. Now this sounds very elementary and I realize it is, but it really sticks out in my mind how much that matters. Elasticity of material really comes to play at point of the shot. Tense muscles, hide ect..
Now my experience is limited with single bevel broadheads but have killed one deer with one and just been busting up targets. I am not the best broadhead sharpener but I can not get the edge as sharp as with double bevel. I dont know why but it just is not happening yet. I thought it would be easier but just not the case for me.
The thing that I have noticed though is the rotation at impact. It has literally destroyed one of my targets much faster than any double bevel that I have shot.
This got me thinking, if a guy took a string and could lay the string along the path that the tips of the blades have traveled through the medium that you were shooting, the single bevel rotated path would always equal more cutting path that the straight path of the double bevel.
With that comes increased resistance and less penetration for a head made exactly the same and only changing the bevel.
So, my current mind thought is that single bevel is similar to increasing cut diameter in the fact that you will give up some penetration due to the increased resistance but provide more cut material in the same distance traveled.
Now, that said, one must have balance between the ability for penetration depth and the destruction path. Until recently for me that meant blade diameter and blade sharpness. Now add in the single bevel rotated path.
The thing I think one could possibly gain is slightly less broadhead cutting diameter for better flight characteristics (in the wind) and maintain the same lethality on the shot. This assumes that a guy can get the edge just as sharp as they can on a double bevel.

Then again, any average broadhead, behind the shoulder, and they all flop down quickly regardless.

richa3md

Let me elaborate on swhacker again since I stated single bevel. The wing blades are in fact single bevel( sharpened on one side). The blades that open up are double beveled. Yes moving parts are a part of it but I myself think this is one of the more sturdy mech's on the market but again only my opinion.

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09' PSE Super Short 29 in and 72.5# and 125 gr G5 Striker Magnum!!!

Terrier

I need some post for ten so I have to comment for this theme.

The sharpening has been an overrate feature in the last time. The perfect razor sharp is a scale of the broadhead quality but not the most important criteria aspect of the penetration. I made more dozen test in the last term. Actually is not difference between the relative brutal dull and the absolute razor sharp blade in the penetration. Maybe there is a littlebid difference in the cutted gash quality but I think it is not significant.

What is the advantage and loss aspect of the sharp?

If you increase the sharpening angle the durability of blade will increase too but these broadheads is not the absolutely razor sharp types. So we have to define for what would like to optimalize the blade. How is the perfect ratio? Make an absolutely razor sharp with lower durability or make a simple sharp with better durability blade while the penetration is same?

I know that the mostest bowhunters prefer the razor sharp blades so I have to make it for my broadhead too but my personal used broadhead sharpe is like a simple kitchen knife. If I have a ten post here I will publish a test about it

So...
Why I prefer the best durability blade? When I read the difference forum theme about the most popular broadheads (like a Rage) I spotted the most people think we have to see what happen with the lumg or heart or other perfect shot. Is the perfect broadheads feature what to do it while the perfect shot? I recognize this pictures are very visible about these shot but not considerable aspect of a broadhead ability.
Doesn't matter what broadhead do you use for the perfect shot. If you shot a lumg or heart the result is sure.

I think we have to study what will happen with the bad shot.
When a Rage impact into a shoulder-blade bone and broke the blades how will it cut when go in the vital tracts?
Go on the dispute about the haemorrhage ability of broadheads in the mostest forum. Show the hopeless of these dispute that is not still result about the two, four, six or bigger, smaller cutting dimater broadhead is the best .....
The one of criteria is sure. Two gash are better bleed like one.....
So my conclusion.

I think the most important feature is the penetration (in all circumstance). The indispensable part of the best penetration ability is the durability too. I think the single bevel sharpening needlessly lower the durability while is not advantage.

Terrier

Oh. Sorry for my bad grammar......