Blood Trail

There's been a lot of talk lately on many archery sites about shooting game in the shoulders with archery equipment. Some are dead set against it, some think otherwise. I like sometimes taking shoulder shots on deer and hogs. I believe they don't go far with busted shoulders. Having saying this, you got to be set up right to make such a shot. I'm currently shooting a Mathews Monster 70#/30 in dl with 510 gr finished arrows. My bow shoots these around 308 fps. Those figures puts me around 107# of ke. So with that, I have no problem putting the pin on a shoulder. Although I prefer a tight heart shot, somethings things happens and shots get pulled a little forward. I like having the confidence knowing that if I pull a shot in the shoulder, I normally don't have to worry.

What are your thoughts?

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2009 Mathews Monster 30 in@ 70#, Rebel Hunter Weight Forward and 100 gr 1 3/4 Grim Reaper Razor cut totaling 510 grs @ 309 fps= 107 lbs of K.E!

MT_Bowhunter

Shooting deer in the shoulder, when the scapula is not attached by a joint is pretty good way to cause a lot of blood shot damage for nothing in my book. That is why in Bowhunters Education we teach to shoot heart lung shots thru the rib cage just behind the leg or going up the rear line of the back of the leg.

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"I don't bowhunt for a living... But I live to bowhunt the traditional way"

Big Boar

With your setup I would agree that you would not have much to worry about. People need to stop trying to apply a single rule to cover every kind of situation. It is truely amazing what that kind of KE can accomplish especially with an arrow over 500 grains. Green shoulders on a deer are really not that tough.

In my younger days I shot a 90 pound compound with round wheels that did not generate anything close to your setup. I took a quartering in shot at a buck from the ground at 30 yards. It hit between the brisket and front shoulder and came within 1/2 inch of coming out the far hind quarter. That was the shortest tracking job I ever had because he just dropped after trying to jump and never moved.

However if you only generate something like 40 foot pounds I would not take anything but the perfect broadside shot.

wyetterp

Your set-up it would be no problem. Man I gotta get one of those monsters.

I don't see a problem w/it. However I also don't see the point in aiming for
the scapula. I'd rather be prepared & have a arrow/broadhead set-up that
can still produce a harvest if that happens, but I'm not going to aim for it
even w/your set-up & a 700gr arrow.

That being said, there have been some times & situations that I'd diffidently
take a straight down spine shot aiming for heart. If I'm in a swamp & it's right
at dark, you better believe I'll take that one & follow up. Even in that
situation, I still wouldn't deliberately take the scapula shot. Just seems kind
of risky. Murphy knows me by name I think.

I do agree that it's best to have a set-up that can get the best results
when it does happen.

I'm surprised though, with that line of thought you use mechanicals. I've seen
some bad results when scapula & mechanicals play around with each other.

I'm not saying that's a poor choice in broadhead, it would just seem that a 2blade
COC would be a little better.

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Experience is something you don't get until just after you need it.

wyetterp

Since we're on the subject, what amount of momentum, is your/our guess, required
to go through the scapula's. No hard facts but my guess is around .6 would be a good
start. Maybe .55 but I think that's a little pushing it.

__________________
Experience is something you don't get until just after you need it.

Pureluck

Too bad you didnt live in northwest Ohio. Got a buddy who is a Mathews Dealer and sales them at 700 which to me is a good deal.

Anyway, back on topic. I ended pulling my shot this year on my buck a little forward and I was shooting Grim Reapers Whitetail specials with the 2 inch cut. It blew through both shoulders and was puckering the hide on the other side. I am shooting a Mathews Monster as well set on 63 pounds with a 28 inch draw length shooting a 427.7 grain arrow at 297 fps so roughly 84lbsKE. It did a number on both shoulders but the deer still managed to go more than a mile with two blown shoulders and the broadhead did not perform like it should have. It did not open. I guess if I were comfortable shooting at the shoulder I would be shooting a solid fixed blade. I do not like my chances taking on a shoulder blade. Too many variables that could happen.

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McPherson Monster 63lbs 28in 297fps PileDriver Hunter 350

cartman308

Hitting the scalpula with most any bow is not a big deal now adays. Anything but the lightest setups will punch threw. But hit a little low inthe knuckle of the shoulder and nothing short of a rifle will do the job.

I think the best shot is a heart/lung hit threw the ribs. But different strokes for different folks.

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Broadheadtalk Moderator
Athens Factory Staff Shooter

Arrowds

The old philosphy, "use a bigger hammer" does work as our bows evolve to become much more efficient at delivering a serious Momentum value which gets thru all that bone. But factor in engineering improvements to the braodheads as well which have evolved an entirely new category of broadhead. This may give you insight into why we engineer our broadheads meant for big game animals with "Compressible Cutting Widths"....it is the real time adjustability of the cutting width to ensure maximization in use of Momentum you deliver to the arrow...providing the best opportunity to achieve straight line penetration thru such more dense obstacles such as bone, and the efficiency improvement adds an exponentially improved situation to achieving a complete pass thru...at a minimum....an exit wound.
We test extensively in shooting thru live animals, deer, cows, wild boar...purposely thru the most dense aspects of thier chest regions to engage as much resistance/deflection value as possible via the identical momentum values/shot angles, etc..all factors attempting to be identical as possible to gain a reasonable confidence in conclusion of comparison of data. The results in use of popular heads vs compressible cutting widths easily demonstrate an exponential difference in lethality delivered, ease of recovery. Compressible cutting width, while in it's infancy and not recognized as "Popular" or really understood clearly currently due to being so new...that is changing due to the results we and our current global testers are seeing thru simple word of mouth and real discussions on forums such as this sites opportunity provides. Just a matter of time where such improvements between bow and broadhead meet in the woods together on a grander scale.

Dr.FrankB-Mimic

I 100% subscribe what Arrowds says.
It is hard to get people, and bowhunters are usually "Hypertraditional thinkers", approach changes with open mind.
You need results and pictures...!
When my friends here in Europe see ATOMS in my quiver, they almost laugh at me.... in the morning.
At the evening, they usually ask where did I get them.

richa3md

as I gain experience in hunting it seems drop a big hammer could turn to drop a smart hammer? Food for thought

Wood

[QUOTE=wyetterp;24536]Your set-up it would be no problem. Man I gotta get one of those monsters.

I don't see a problem w/it. However I also don't see the point in aiming for
the scapula. I'd rather be prepared & have a arrow/broadhead set-up that
can still produce a harvest if that happens, but I'm not going to aim for it
even w/your set-up & a 700gr arrow.

That being said, there have been some times & situations that I'd diffidently
take a straight down spine shot aiming for heart. If I'm in a swamp & it's right
at dark, you better believe I'll take that one & follow up. Even in that
situation, I still wouldn't deliberately take the scapula shot. Just seems kind
of risky. Murphy knows me by name I think.

I do agree that it's best to have a set-up that can get the best results
when it does happen.

I'm surprised though, with that line of thought you use mechanicals. I've seen
some bad results when scapula & mechanicals play around with each other.

I'm not saying that's a poor choice in broadhead, it would just seem that a 2blade
COC would be a little better.[/QUOTE]
My thoughts as well. Mechanicals simply can't compare to a good stout 2 blade on a bone hit.

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His bow remains steady, and his arms are made strong by the power of the mighty God of Jacob.