Broad head flight -

RamMan · 08-21-2011, 03:24 PM

Hi guys I was just curious is it really possible to get BH and FP to hit the same spot? I dont think I should even worry about it if I decide to hunt with fixed heads I should just sight in for them and not worry but I was shooting the Athens today with a Muzzy MX4 and could not get them to hit the same place. It seems even if I move my rest they stay the same distance apart but bring the BH closer to where they need to be. Just curious to what you guys all think

mudslinger · 08-21-2011, 04:11 PM

I would try to get your BH's and FP's to hit the same. If not, you may not have your bow properly tuned and that could affect accuracy and penetration. Yes an untuned arrow tipped with a BH that is not flying right may not penetrate as well as one that is fine tuned and flying like a dart. I will throw one BH in the mix that I think you should look at and that is the Smoke Ramcat. This is a unbelievable BH that is flying under the radar. This flies like a dart for me out to 50 and hits like a sledge hammer and cuts some wicked holes.

RamMan · 08-21-2011, 06:16 PM

Thanks I will check it out I havent paper tuned or walkback tuned yet but going to do it soon but one time I had them hitting the same then the next time i shoot they are off could be me torquing bow

SARASR · 08-22-2011, 08:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mudslinger

I would try to get your BH's and FP's to hit the same. If not, you may not have your bow properly tuned and that could affect accuracy and penetration. Yes an untuned arrow tipped with a BH that is not flying right may not penetrate as well as one that is fine tuned and flying like a dart. I will throw one BH in the mix that I think you should look at and that is the Smoke Ramcat. This is a unbelievable BH that is flying under the radar. This flies like a dart for me out to 50 and hits like a sledge hammer and cuts some wicked holes.

I TOTALLY AGREE!

I havn't shot the Ramcats yet but they get great reviews, Best flying head for me have been Slick Tricks. Any way as mudslinger said it is def. worth
tuning to perfection it will increase your confidence when taking a shot and
that never hurts.

Mark Land · 08-24-2011, 10:13 AM

A broadhead that flies and groups very well with other broadheads is flying good, just too many variables with each archer, equipment, setup or tune to blatantly say that it will shoot broadheads and field pts together all the time, but certainly should be able to shoot and group those heads together and move the sights for them.
I always try and broadhead/field pt goup tune bows, if so great, if not then I tune for the best broadhead grouping and move the sight. We shoot and practice for hunting with broadheads so I like to be shooting exactly what I am hunting with, especially just before the season.

ratel · 08-25-2011, 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RamMan

Hi guys I was just curious is it really possible to get BH and FP to hit the same spot? I dont think I should even worry about it if I decide to hunt with fixed heads I should just sight in for them and not worry but I was shooting the Athens today with a Muzzy MX4 and could not get them to hit the same place. It seems even if I move my rest they stay the same distance apart but bring the BH closer to where they need to be. Just curious to what you guys all think

an interesting question ,and one that I too am struggling with , Bow set up fine and dandy , paper tuned, checked and re-checked. Using maxima 350: shafts from my 70lb monster field points fly perfectly, Using G5 montecs the flight is to say the very least absulutely horrendous.
I have found no contact issues . spine is correct and broad heads are spin tested true and aligned. Yet I am still getting inconsistent flight .Not even consistent enough to attempt to acheive group convergance.
Unfortunately Being in the UK there is not a lot of broadhead expertise available this side of the atlantic. Especially as it is illegal to hunt with a bow in the Uk and we have to go abroad if we wish to bow hunt.
Any help thoughts or suggestions would be greatly appreciated from the members of the forum

Mark Land · 08-25-2011, 03:21 PM

Ratel, I would suggest checking your fletching as it sounds like you are not getting enough stability for your broadheads. You need to shoot helical fletching to spin and stabilize fixed blade broadheads and as you go smaller in fletching size, helical becomes more important. If you are shooting very small fletchings straight with your broadheads, then that is you biggest problem. Longer, helical fletching will help to stabilize more setups and are much more forgiven to shooting error as well, pretty much nothing stabilizes a broadhead better then 4in helical feathers. Good luck

yotekilla · 08-25-2011, 08:23 PM

Im shooting slick trick mags and at 20 yds they hit with my fp's but at 30yds they hit 2" high and at 40yds 4" high. I tried moving my rest and it didnt do much. I'm using 3" offset vanes. Iv never had FP's hi exactly with my broadheads. With many different bow set ups. Is this because of wind plane?

Mark Land · 08-26-2011, 07:00 AM

Could be but sounds very slight with your setup. Just make sure you are shooting more then just 1 arrow/head setup, you need to shoot a round of 3 broadheads just to ensure that it is not an arrow/head variation causing the difference.
Yote with your situation, I would think a slight, I mean very slight nock height or rest elevation change could correct that, have never had any trouble getting broadheads and fielt pts to impact on the same level. Good luck!

yotekilla · 08-26-2011, 09:30 AM

Im gonna move my rest down to see if my broadheads hit lower. They fly like darts otherwise.

Leo · 08-26-2011, 09:32 AM

If moving the rest slightly up or down has practically no effect, then I would suspect a very small amount of fletching interference is the culprit.

Try spraying the back 6 inches of the arrow with foot powder and see if there are any tell tale drag marks on the rest, shelf and fletchings.

If you are using a Whisker Biscuit rest this won't help. In that case I would suspect it's time for a new rest.

RamMan · 08-26-2011, 06:38 PM

Hey ratel you might want to try a stiffer shaft on the monster they are beast of bows they like stiffer shafts.

Arrowds · 08-27-2011, 09:24 AM

With engineering broadheads and knowing the simple Laws of Physics fact regarding air flow to the molecular level across flat planar surfaces which are rotating and oscillating as a broadhead tipped arrow goes from bow to animal/target.
The fact remains simple. A field point does not have any planar surfaces to create lift like an airplane wing nor anything radiating outward from it's core body to cause drag. It just goes where you aim it.
A broadhead has objects (Blades) radiating out from the body to cause drag...plus they are flat...so provide a planar surface. This flat/planar surface allows via rotation of the arrow shaft and oscillation of the shaft differing pressures to occur on top of a blade in comparison to the bottom of the blade...hence, exactly how an airplane wing works...this creates "Lift". With the lift being created in a random directions due to the unique characteristics of the rotation and oscillation....the impact point of that between a field point and fixed bladed broadhead will differ...
Factor in what many have experienced with new bows shooting in excess of 350 fps....again..the aeronautic influence is simple. For every factor of one you increase velocity....you exponentially increase the magnitude of lift being created...it's why many shooting new bows decide to simply ONLY sight in with broadheads...not even try to get both field tips and broadheads to hit the same spot...especially out to 40, 50 and 60 yards.
At 20 to 30 yards...it takes less than a second to go from bow to target...so the influence of "Lift" is hidden within traveling that distance in a very small magnitude of time....plus...with not all archers being of Olympic form capability...you must factor in the variance of the shooters ability to either mask or exacerbate the difference of impact point in comparison to that of a field tip. And as Mark noted...if you don't have the insert perfect...you change the "Angle of attack" in which that "Wing" goes thru the air...this is again..another exponentially multiplying factor which creates a lot more lift in that direction...not good either.
And as RamMan noted...if you shoot a stiffer shaft...this reduces the magnitude of shaft oscillation (Reduces magnitude of angle of attack change) and thus..exponentially less lift created...hits more closely to that of field point.
Yea...I know...it's long winded and I apologize for that...but these are just simply the facts on "Why does it do that".
Best thing....if you determine that a fixed bladed broadhead is what you are going to hunt with.....just sight your bow in with that and don't worry about where your field points hit. After all....killing a critter takes a broadhead...not a field point....so just shoot those with confidence knowing they hit where you're aiming! And then post the photo's on this sight so we can see those critters!

ratel · 08-27-2011, 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark Land

Ratel, I would suggest checking your fletching as it sounds like you are not getting enough stability for your broadheads. You need to shoot helical fletching to spin and stabilize fixed blade broadheads and as you go smaller in fletching size, helical becomes more important. If you are shooting very small fletchings straight with your broadheads, then that is you biggest problem. Longer, helical fletching will help to stabilize more setups and are much more forgiven to shooting error as well, pretty much nothing stabilizes a broadhead better then 4in helical feathers. Good luck

To Mark and Ram Man. Many thanks for the words of wisdom. I had the chance today to test with some different vanes. I had been using Quick Spins as reccomended by my pro shop but fleched up some shfts with some 2inch Vanetec hp with a resonable helical offset. shot at 40 yards the difference was astounding from my previous results. five shafts( 3x broad head and 2x field points) in a 2 inch square after a very small rest adjustment. everything converging perfectly from 15 to 60 yards. Boy am I one happy puppy.
I would have expected the Quick spin vanes to give the stabilization needed but a result is a result and I am not complaining . I now have two months to prepare for a hunt in South Africa. EXITED !!!!!!!!!!!

once again many thanks to the members for their guidance......Ratel

Oldclucker · 08-27-2011, 03:28 PM

i shot muzzy for ten years. I would always have to change my sights to get the BH's to hit the same as FP. Its the nature of the beast. They would do a great job.

08-21-2011, 03:24 PM	#1 (permalink)
RamMan 85gr Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Vermont Posts: 60	Broad head flight Hi guys I was just curious is it really possible to get BH and FP to hit the same spot? I dont think I should even worry about it if I decide to hunt with fixed heads I should just sight in for them and not worry but I was shooting the Athens today with a Muzzy MX4 and could not get them to hit the same place. It seems even if I move my rest they stay the same distance apart but bring the BH closer to where they need to be. Just curious to what you guys all think __________________ A country Boy can surrvive Athens Factory Staff Shooter

08-21-2011, 04:11 PM	#2 (permalink)
mudslinger 125gr Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Texas Posts: 321	I would try to get your BH's and FP's to hit the same. If not, you may not have your bow properly tuned and that could affect accuracy and penetration. Yes an untuned arrow tipped with a BH that is not flying right may not penetrate as well as one that is fine tuned and flying like a dart. I will throw one BH in the mix that I think you should look at and that is the Smoke Ramcat. This is a unbelievable BH that is flying under the radar. This flies like a dart for me out to 50 and hits like a sledge hammer and cuts some wicked holes. __________________ 09 HCA Speed Pro 29" 70# Gold Tip XT Hunter 28" @560 grains Smoke Ramcats!

08-21-2011, 06:16 PM	#3 (permalink)
RamMan 85gr Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Vermont Posts: 60	Thanks I will check it out I havent paper tuned or walkback tuned yet but going to do it soon but one time I had them hitting the same then the next time i shoot they are off could be me torquing bow __________________ A country Boy can surrvive Athens Factory Staff Shooter

08-24-2011, 10:13 AM	#5 (permalink)
Mark Land Muzzy Representative Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 190	A broadhead that flies and groups very well with other broadheads is flying good, just too many variables with each archer, equipment, setup or tune to blatantly say that it will shoot broadheads and field pts together all the time, but certainly should be able to shoot and group those heads together and move the sights for them. I always try and broadhead/field pt goup tune bows, if so great, if not then I tune for the best broadhead grouping and move the sight. We shoot and practice for hunting with broadheads so I like to be shooting exactly what I am hunting with, especially just before the season. __________________ Muzzy Products Technical Support Specialist Prostaff Director Bowfishing Promotions

08-25-2011, 03:21 PM	#7 (permalink)
Mark Land Muzzy Representative Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 190	Ratel, I would suggest checking your fletching as it sounds like you are not getting enough stability for your broadheads. You need to shoot helical fletching to spin and stabilize fixed blade broadheads and as you go smaller in fletching size, helical becomes more important. If you are shooting very small fletchings straight with your broadheads, then that is you biggest problem. Longer, helical fletching will help to stabilize more setups and are much more forgiven to shooting error as well, pretty much nothing stabilizes a broadhead better then 4in helical feathers. Good luck __________________ Muzzy Products Technical Support Specialist Prostaff Director Bowfishing Promotions

08-25-2011, 08:23 PM	#8 (permalink)
yotekilla 100gr Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Northern IN Posts: 230	Im shooting slick trick mags and at 20 yds they hit with my fp's but at 30yds they hit 2" high and at 40yds 4" high. I tried moving my rest and it didnt do much. I'm using 3" offset vanes. Iv never had FP's hi exactly with my broadheads. With many different bow set ups. Is this because of wind plane? __________________ PSE EVO 65lb. 29" draw Golt tip pro hunters 100gr slick tricks 380gr arrow 300fps.

08-26-2011, 07:00 AM	#9 (permalink)
Mark Land Muzzy Representative Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 190	Could be but sounds very slight with your setup. Just make sure you are shooting more then just 1 arrow/head setup, you need to shoot a round of 3 broadheads just to ensure that it is not an arrow/head variation causing the difference. Yote with your situation, I would think a slight, I mean very slight nock height or rest elevation change could correct that, have never had any trouble getting broadheads and fielt pts to impact on the same level. Good luck! __________________ Muzzy Products Technical Support Specialist Prostaff Director Bowfishing Promotions

08-26-2011, 09:30 AM	#10 (permalink)
yotekilla 100gr Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Northern IN Posts: 230	Im gonna move my rest down to see if my broadheads hit lower. They fly like darts otherwise. __________________ PSE EVO 65lb. 29" draw Golt tip pro hunters 100gr slick tricks 380gr arrow 300fps.

08-26-2011, 09:32 AM	#11 (permalink)
Leo 100gr Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: South Carolina Posts: 165	If moving the rest slightly up or down has practically no effect, then I would suspect a very small amount of fletching interference is the culprit. Try spraying the back 6 inches of the arrow with foot powder and see if there are any tell tale drag marks on the rest, shelf and fletchings. If you are using a Whisker Biscuit rest this won't help. In that case I would suspect it's time for a new rest.

08-26-2011, 06:38 PM	#12 (permalink)
RamMan 85gr Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Vermont Posts: 60	Hey ratel you might want to try a stiffer shaft on the monster they are beast of bows they like stiffer shafts. __________________ A country Boy can surrvive Athens Factory Staff Shooter

08-27-2011, 09:24 AM	#13 (permalink)
Arrowds Broadhead Maker Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 173	With engineering broadheads and knowing the simple Laws of Physics fact regarding air flow to the molecular level across flat planar surfaces which are rotating and oscillating as a broadhead tipped arrow goes from bow to animal/target. The fact remains simple. A field point does not have any planar surfaces to create lift like an airplane wing nor anything radiating outward from it's core body to cause drag. It just goes where you aim it. A broadhead has objects (Blades) radiating out from the body to cause drag...plus they are flat...so provide a planar surface. This flat/planar surface allows via rotation of the arrow shaft and oscillation of the shaft differing pressures to occur on top of a blade in comparison to the bottom of the blade...hence, exactly how an airplane wing works...this creates "Lift". With the lift being created in a random directions due to the unique characteristics of the rotation and oscillation....the impact point of that between a field point and fixed bladed broadhead will differ... Factor in what many have experienced with new bows shooting in excess of 350 fps....again..the aeronautic influence is simple. For every factor of one you increase velocity....you exponentially increase the magnitude of lift being created...it's why many shooting new bows decide to simply ONLY sight in with broadheads...not even try to get both field tips and broadheads to hit the same spot...especially out to 40, 50 and 60 yards. At 20 to 30 yards...it takes less than a second to go from bow to target...so the influence of "Lift" is hidden within traveling that distance in a very small magnitude of time....plus...with not all archers being of Olympic form capability...you must factor in the variance of the shooters ability to either mask or exacerbate the difference of impact point in comparison to that of a field tip. And as Mark noted...if you don't have the insert perfect...you change the "Angle of attack" in which that "Wing" goes thru the air...this is again..another exponentially multiplying factor which creates a lot more lift in that direction...not good either. And as RamMan noted...if you shoot a stiffer shaft...this reduces the magnitude of shaft oscillation (Reduces magnitude of angle of attack change) and thus..exponentially less lift created...hits more closely to that of field point. Yea...I know...it's long winded and I apologize for that...but these are just simply the facts on "Why does it do that". Best thing....if you determine that a fixed bladed broadhead is what you are going to hunt with.....just sight your bow in with that and don't worry about where your field points hit. After all....killing a critter takes a broadhead...not a field point....so just shoot those with confidence knowing they hit where you're aiming! And then post the photo's on this sight so we can see those critters!

08-27-2011, 03:28 PM	#15 (permalink)
Oldclucker Trial Member Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Michigan Posts: 16	i shot muzzy for ten years. I would always have to change my sights to get the BH's to hit the same as FP. Its the nature of the beast. They would do a great job.

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version Email this Page	Search this Thread: Advanced Search
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode